Rob: Shervin, welcome to the Trial to Pay podcast. Thanks for coming on.
Shervin: Hi. Thanks for having,
Rob: Cool. So we're gonna be talking about, your product, AnyTracker today. Before we dive into that, um, I'd just like to ask, is there a, guiding principle philosophy that's sort of, uh, guides how you build product, something that keeps you motivated, and moving in the right direction?
Shervin: I've actually been thinking a bit about this lately because, uh. I want to continue working on this app, but I also want to, you know, develop other things. And I basically boiled it down to three principles. So a good app idea for me is first and foremost, it should have good keywords, and that means low competition and high traffic.
Uh, preferably it should be easy to make. So I can create an MVP quite fast. And. See how the audience responds. And last one is not crucial, but it would be nice if there was something I would need myself. So I would have like the user perspective as well.
Rob: Perfect. That makes sense. alright, let's, um, so we're gonna talk about your product a little bit, but let's, let's just have a little chat around your, your background. So, um, I guess going, um, going sort of way back, I mean, presuming that you, you code, don't you build the product, sort yourself, uh, from scratch, I dunno.
Maybe use, use some AI tools a little bit. These days most people do.
Shervin: Uh, but not in the old days. That was before AI. Yeah.
Rob: So you'd be doing, doing it a while. And so, um, how did you initially get into coding?
Shervin: Um, it was in high school. Uh, we had this course, uh, that was my first, uh, interaction with coding. That was action Script. So it was, yeah, interesting. It was mostly for games to be honest, but, uh, I enjoyed it. I remember I played the game. It was a Christmas gift from my grandparents. They had to solve all these puzzles, and if you felt one of them, uh, were drawn back to the Stark, and at the end of that game there was this code that would unlock the actual physical gift, and they couldn't solve it.
It was quite difficult. They passed it on to my uncle and he tried, and they actually got the last step, but, uh. Cannot make it. Yeah. So the gift is still unopened.
Rob: Brilliant. Great. Okay, so that was very early on, you said in, in high school. And then, I guess what was that where the interest in coding and building things originated?
Shervin: Yes.
Rob: And then
Shervin: I.
Rob: presumably then you took that forward. I was looking in your, um, in your LinkedIn
so actually you ended up studying robotics. Is that right? At university.
Shervin: Exactly, and that's where I started coding a bit more. Uh, we had some, uh, classes was most like introduction to Python c plus plus that I started, started doing a bit on my own, on the side. So I had this, uh, smartwatch that I wanted to see, could I make something interesting for it? And I basically created two small, uh, kind of fun utilities.
So first one was like a random answer generator. So you just put in a question, tap the screen, and it told you yes, no,
Rob: Yep.
Shervin: maybe enough. And you could, you know, use that for every decision you had to make throughout today, for example. Um, but that actually sparked, uh, uh, the interest or it ignited the idea of AnyTracker because I wanted to see the statistics, how many downloaded, downloaded my app, and, you know, month to month.
It was really difficult. I had to log to Garmin's website and they just showed one chart for each week. So no like cumulative, but I thought, okay, the number's there on the website, I should be able to grab it somehow and display it on my home screen on my phone. That was the goal. Uh, so I looked a bit into this and eventually I was able to parse that number.
And displayed on a widget on my phone, and I was quite satisfied. But I also realized this had endless potential because there are tons of numbers on the internet and I bet a lot of people have, uh, interesting use cases for this. So I generalized the algorithm. So it would not just be for this website, but uh, basically for Anna website.
And also maybe this was one of the most important things I did for app was that I created this, yeah, called the algorithm, but it, the text, very highlight on the website and extracts that number or text and that basically makes the whole tracking way easier. You just highlight what you want to track and it's selected.
So I continued building this app, uh, like generalizing it and also adding other features, like, okay, no, it's website tracking. It could be anything. So cryptos, um, currencies, followers, uh, or even manuals. Um, and we might come back to this later, but
Rob: Yeah,
Shervin: be honest, I should have shifted way earlier than I did.
I.
Rob: interesting. So it sounded like you, you sort of stumbled into this idea. You were just sort of playing around with some things, trying some things out, and then this idea came from that.
Shervin: Yeah, it was kind of backwards actually. When I think of it, at least what the value proposition is now, it's completely different from what I began with.
And this was actually also. Uh, an intro to Android development for, from my side. 'cause I hadn't, I hadn't made just one small app before.
Rob: Yeah. And one thing I'm just wondering though, given that you are, you know, you've got this robotics background and that's your, your, your day
Shervin: Yep.
Rob: were as well, you're a, autonomy engineer, right?
Shervin: Yeah, that's correct.
Rob: So given that you're sort of in that, in that space, were you not sort of thinking if I was gonna build something it might be in, in, in that space as opposed to where you've ended up?
Shervin: Well, uh, I enjoy my day job and I enjoyed my studies, but also like to have kind of a product on the side that was not necessarily related to drones, and which I worked repeat every day. Now.
Rob: Yeah. I guess there's also considerations around needing more money to get started in, in that kinda space, building a, a physical product,
Shervin: Yeah, and the hardware integration, I'm not that into hardware to be honest.
Rob: Okay. Yeah, let's chat a bit more about, about AnyTracker then. So, so I guess kind of, um, obviously you've already dived into it a little bit. We've got some context on how you came up with the idea, but I guess sort of, zooming, zooming out then, um, so. I mean, it, it, it's fairly clear what what it is.
It allows you, as I understand it, allows you to track anything, right? But people seem to have gravitated towards using it to track prices. But how does that actually, uh, how does it work ? If I'm a user, how do I, um, and I
Shervin: Yeah.
Rob: a particular price.
Shervin: Yeah. Uh, so you copy the link of the website, paste it inside the app, and then you can browse to the, if you don't have the exact link, you can browse to the product you want to track, and then you can either highlight the price with your finger. You can click scan to see the available numbers on that page, and then you start tracking.
You can set some settings for notifications, for example, when the number drops below, say $50, and then it'll update in the background and you'll be notified, for example, when the price changes. And in that notification is also a button you can click to go to the website and. Complete your purchase or what you want to do.
Um, it, it's also, you know, privacy centered. So I don't know what people are tracking,
Rob: Okay.
Shervin: and that's been kind of important from the start.
Rob: You found that some early users made that clear that they, that was important to them or?
Shervin: Um, actually not, but, uh, it's been kind of from the opposite direction that other others have suggested me to, to do. What I find, uh, are dark patterns like adding, you know, uh, promo codes or, uh, affiliate codes, um, or sending this data to third parties. Um, but that was never, never really an option for me.
Rob: Yeah. Okay. So you can track pretty much anything that's on a, on, on a webpage. Um, but this is on a, this is on a
Shervin: Yeah.
Rob: app. And you found that that was, is that just because your preferences towards building mobile apps or did you find that that was just a better. Way to offer it up.
Shervin: Um, yeah, that's, it's just very, uh. Kind of started as a mobile app, and I've got quite a few requests to, at least at a Chrome plugin. And I think that would make sense, uh, because often you are on our, uh, laptop when you are browsing stores. Uh, but for now it's only mobile. And I do find it convenient because you have all of this data at your fingertips, all these products you're following, and the graphs and the notifications.
So I do find it makes sense to, to be a native app.
But what's unique about the app is that it works on any website, so many of the other price comparison tools, they either just work on Amazon or just on a few select websites. But this one works on virtually all, and it's not just price tracking, it's also in stock alerts and you know, things completely.
Related to products like, uh, I've seen people use it to track like their Visa application and, uh, also when new appointments are available, uh, when concept tickets are released. So
Rob: so is,
Shervin: quite a broad,
Rob: sort of some extra complexity there that you've, you've figured out do you, you sort of explicitly say you can track anything, No caveats.
Shervin: Uh, well, I have made quite a few updates over the years to support more websites. Some have more strict checks and, you know, for example, uh, JavaScript loading a standard, uh, parer would not be able to handle that. So I have these modes in the app called Extended and Ultra Mode. Uh, which basically the ultra mode is the most powerful one, but it's also the one that takes more time to load than set up.
So I recommend starting with the normal mode and if that fails, try the other modes. I.
Rob: Yeah. Okay. And in terms of your, your market then, I suppose it's, it's probably pretty broad and quite hard to pin down.
Shervin: But, uh, the US is definitely the biggest market.
Rob: I.
Shervin: Um, I think, uh, India is close second, but they don't bring in nearly the same revenue as you probably can imagine. Um, so yeah, us and a couple of countries in the, in Europe, we bring in most of their revenue.
Rob: Yep. And um, did you at any point , before you started building, sort of think, okay, maybe I just better sort of check with a few more people as whether this is genuinely useful, not just me, you know, a bit of validation?
Did you do that or did you just get on with building it?
Shervin: Well, uh, I showed it to my parents, but, uh, I think they would approve anything I showed them. So that was maybe not so useful. Uh, but it was, I. The real validation was when I posted it on the subreddit
Rob: Yep.
Shervin: on Android apps. Uh, so that was kind of overwhelming to be honest. I did not expect all that feedback and the app was completely free that point.
So I think that also influences people's opinions.
Today we, there are different tires, um, so that was. What led to say the first 10,000 installs, and then a couple months later, uh, I was really lucky that, uh, this big tech code, uh, code app, and he showcased it in, uh, one of his, uh, top Android apps of the month, uh, videos.
And that led to a lot of downloads. So then from 10 to 50,000 in a couple of weeks.
Rob: Okay. Okay, so the, the initial app that you, you posted on that subreddit , was that more of a kind of MVP as compared to where it is now?
Shervin: Uh, yeah. In the early days it was, first of all, it was just Android and it was, it was quite simple, but it was functional for. At least like the easiest websites. So I believe the app only started with one mode, the normal mode. Um, so I quickly started getting feedback from users on websites that did not work.
Um, so I used that and created these other modes, right? Would work eventually.
Rob: Yep. And, uh, do you, I mean, do you still get that now? Do you still get people sort of requesting new types of websites that they wanna track that doesn't quite support, or is it pretty much
Shervin: Now it's kind of slowed down actually the feedback, which I believe is a good thing that, uh, there is not too much to complain about. But, uh, I also really enjoy getting these messages, you know, for feature requests or whatever it may be from. Users that, uh, 'cause sometimes when I don't get these messages, I might just leave the app for a month and not think about it.
Rob: you going, doesn't it?
Shervin: Yeah.
Rob: well I think it's interesting because all you kind of said like you showed it to your, your mum and she said, oh, this a great idea. And normally you'd think, well maybe take that with a pinch of salt. But actually with this app, I mean anyone potentially is a user.
It's got such broad appeal. So actually. You know, your mom saying would be useful actually is not, you know, is actually quite good feedback because she may actually use it. Um, and similar to on, on the Reddit thread, 'cause obviously that's quite a kind of, you know, kind of generic subreddit. You dropped it in just like Android apps. Um, you know,
Shervin: Mm.
Rob: if it was more of a kind of niche product for a particular industry, that might be a not that helpful. You get a bunch of tire kickers, we're just like, oh, an app. Okay, we'll have a look, but they're not really gonna be your customers. Um, but, but with this, of course you can, you, you can drop it in there, get a bit of interest, and anyone could be, you know, could end up using it.
Shervin: That's a very good point. And also what I like about this app is that it has such a broad appeal and I think that's eventually what I have to tap into to make it grow real more. Because at this point I'm struggling or I'm not struggling, but to. The app is not growing because it's not reaching new users while basically anyone on the world with a phone and internet connection could use this app.
Rob: Yeah. I guess, I guess the flip side to all that is maybe it's gonna start to make sense to pick out some particular niches that you know it's really good for, and then really focus on trying to find people those.
Shervin: Yeah, that's a good point. So I. I dunno who would be in the most interested in price tracking. I know some actually companies use the app so they could save hundreds, thousands of dollars on buying heavy equipment. Um, those are obviously willing to pay for a subscription because it's just makes sense.
Uh, but again, those companies are maybe not. So many. So I believe regular customers that, uh, like going on Amazon and shopping like the rest of us, uh, if I could somehow tap into that market, that would be great.
Rob: Yeah, absolutely. Right. So in terms of how, how the product's, um, positioned at the moment though, are, are there any, um, direct competitors that you are aware of?
Shervin: There are some that are just focused on, I. Uh, Amazon price tracking. So I believe there's, let me see, they're on, uh, for Amazon Price Tracker for that keyword. Uh, kipa is, uh, the one that's, uh, at the top on io on the app store. Uh, for, actually for the price tracker keyword, the AnyTracker is the first one.
Rob: Yeah.
Shervin: But yeah, so the other ones are mostly for specialized for Amazon as I can see it.
Rob: imagine. Yeah, I can imagine. Amazon price tracking would be quite a, quite a busy space. But, but you know,
Shervin: Yeah.
Rob: it's gonna make sense for you to focus on some use cases that you know, where,
Shervin: I.
Rob: um, types of price that your app can track that other apps can't. Um, as you've put in that extra work there to solve some of those problems, by the sounds of it.
Shervin: Yeah, maybe if I could find like, uh, for each country, which website is popular there? I know from top of my head, um, Mercado Ble, I believe is a popular Mexican website, uh, flip card in India. Uh, so if I could make something more specialized, I know targeted ads for those countries, it could make sense to.
Uh, maybe that would help me reach more people.
Rob: uh, I mean, roughly how many users do you have at this point?
Shervin: Uh, 10,000 active users and app in total has 200,000 downloads now.
Rob: And is there a another metric that you track, like number of prices tracked or something like that?
Shervin: Uh, no, I, as I mentioned earlier, I don't really know what people are doing with app.
Rob: That'd be really interesting to dive
Shervin: Uh,
Rob: 'cause if you could start to see some patterns around how people are using it, then that could be good
Shervin: yeah, probably I should be more lenient in that regard, uh, because I could gather like anonymous
Rob: Yeah.
Shervin: data and not tie it even to any websites. I.
Rob: Great. Okay. So let's talk about, AnyTracker more from a sort of business point of view. Then obviously you've mentioned how many, roughly how many users you've got there. So what's the pricing model With AnyTracker?
Shervin: So there's a free tire in which you can track from one website at a time, and there are three other tires. So silver, gold, and platinum. Um, so platinum allows you to track from unlimited, unlimited websites, and silver and gold are a bit more limited. Um. Uh, so basically I tried to price, I reduced actually the annual price not so long ago because I saw that most people were opting for the monthly, and at least historically the retention has been three, four months.
So reducing the annual price then made sense. So in terms of revenue, uh, the monthly recurring revenue is $800 now,
Rob: Yep.
Shervin: and it has been for quite some time. Um, I can see the last 12 months. Yeah, so at some point I offered Lifetime as well. Uh, so once I stopped doing that, uh, I will see the immediate revenue dropped a bit, but.
In the long term, I think it's been a good idea because the MRR has grown from around 500, which it was 10 to 800 now.
Rob: Right. So you're saying you, you tend to see if people go on for monthly, they tend to just keep it for maybe three to four months
so yeah, if you can make the, the annual appealing enough for mean, you effectively know you've got 'em for 12 months.
So it's a better trade off, I suppose, if you get the price right. Yeah. Okay. And you mentioned, uh, about 10,000 active users, right? So, um, is it a freemium model then?
Shervin: Yes it's freemium, so free to download and you can use it, but it's quite limited with just one website tracking at a time. Um, or it's one from each category? Category. So it's website, it's from financial and from social media tracking. That's also in the app.
Rob: Okay. So roughly how many customers at this point then paying customers?
Shervin: Uh, it's two hundred and six, two seventy.
Rob: Great. Great. And, and when did you launch or start charging?
Shervin: Um. Was launched 2021 in the summer, and I think a few months later I started with a, a premium, uh, subscription, or it was actually a lifetime at that point. So subscription came a bit later. Yeah,
Rob: Yeah. Um, so it's a, it is a stable, mature product at this point, and as you
Shervin: I.
Rob: that the, the feedback is sort of tailing off in terms of things it can't do or issues. So you think you're in a really good position now to find a way to take, take the MRR up a notch
Shervin: Yeah, definitely the features should be quite complete at this point. I mean, obviously I can continue creating stuff, but it's, there are diminishing returns at this point. Um, so marketing, it would be great to learn more about this or. Maybe talk to someone that knows more about this, because I feel like that's where it's, it, uh, it stopped at this point.
Rob: Yeah. Okay, so let's move into, um, well actually we, we talked about this a little earlier, but maybe we'll just sort of. Of just kind of go over it briefly again. So, um, 'cause you mentioned the, the subreddit where you, so that was, that was where you got your initial influx of users, I suppose, wasn't it, from the Android subreddit? Were there some
Shervin: Yeah,
Rob: there's some further stages to this. Did you do some posting some other places or, uh,
Shervin: and that was the one that, uh, gave me the most traffic as far as I remember. Um, also where once the. Apple. The I app was red. I also got most of my traffic from Reddit. Um, yeah, so because it started as a native Android app and eventually I realized I had to make the I app as well. Um,
Rob: you
Shervin: so
Rob: two native separate native apps.
Shervin: yeah, and actually it took some time before, before I made the IOS app because. You need a Mac to create I apps. Uh, but you know, the nice thing about this app was that I use the revenue from the app to buy MacBook. Yeah.
Rob: Great. But I mean, to get, to have gotten to 10,000 users, albeit over, uh, albeit most of them free and over a. Few years, surely that can't of all come from one two, you know, a couple of Reddit posts. You must have, you must have done some more things along the way to get to that.
Shervin: I think a lot of it also has been people showing it to their friends and family. Um, I haven't done much marketing, to be honest. I tried Google ads at some point. I. But that was like throwing one out of the window. At least with my knowledge. Uh, I probably didn't set up the ads very well. Um, today I run Apple search ads, but just like a minimal amount.
So $10 a week, just enough to get a few, a few leads. Um, but also keywords are important, so. As I said, it's ranking at the top for the Price Tracker keyboard on App Store, which is I believe, quite good. Um, I also think just that the app has, uh, quite a few downloads, pretty good rating, uh, just leads to it being at the top of the sector cells in both stores.
Rob: Yeah. And, and with 10,000 mostly free users, is, is that any kind of burden for, for you from a support point of view or, I mean, are there any, the cost significant there that you have to cover?
Shervin: No, not really. Uh, but actually it's interesting that you say it now that there are 10,000 users, but just 270 are paying. So
Rob: Maybe you could get a few more
Shervin: you would imagine there should,
Rob: that 10,000.
Shervin: there should probably be a. Some potential in converting more of those as well? Probably I could do some price experiments. Uh, the price is already, um, it's specialized for each country, so according to purchasing power.
Uh, but I should probably run some tests to see if I can convert more.
Rob: Yeah. Seems like there's a lot of potential there.
Shervin: Yeah.
Rob: Great. Okay. Um, let's, let's talk about some of the, lessons learned overall then. So do you have in mind, um, one thing that you feel has worked particularly well?
Shervin: Um, yeah, I would say I was right in thinking that this would, uh, work as a general tool. Uh, so as I said it. I've gotten messages from users over the years that use it for vastly different per um, purposes from, you know, the price of plane tickets to, uh, concert tickets and also the manual tracker. I've heard people use it for mood tracking and health tracking,
Rob: Yeah. So not just prices
Shervin: which is interesting.
Rob: any
Shervin: Yeah,
Rob: after all? Yep.
Shervin: yeah, yeah. Um. Also, uh, just from my personal standpoint, I found that the compounding effect you get from just making small improvements every day, it's quite big. So just 30 minutes a day can get you a long way. I, I remember I was at the exchange here, uh, I had that in Munich and I had basically every day, 20 minutes train ride to the university.
And in those 20 minutes I got so much done because I was less focused and I knew that within this time, uh, this is all I have for, for now. And that's, that's when I created another Android app actually, which is called Food Lookup. So it's used to get the information about products, like how much protein it has and the colors.
Um, yeah, so I've created some other apps over the years as well. Mostly out of my own interest and for my own use.
Rob: So, so overall, yeah. Your, your instinct was what worked out well here, but that was largely because you built something that you, you found useful
Shervin: Yeah,
Rob: and just something that interested you. Yeah. And then you pick out one thing that maybe hasn't gone so well?
Shervin: Um, I've learned a bit. So first of all, as I mentioned, I launched app too late. I spent time creating features like Instagram tracking that, you know, not so many people use. And if I could say one more thing, it would be that. I also spent too much time catering to a few loud voices that wanted specific features in the app, and just because they spoke loud, that spent a lot of time creating features that would only benefit a small, uh,
Rob: Yes. And were, were they, uh, were they speaking loud in, in public, or was that sort of over email or,
Shervin: Uh, it was email, but I guess, uh. Maybe, uh, of nature. I'm a bit of a people pleaser, so it's hard to let people know.
Rob: the early days when you've only got a handful of, you know, users and you, you know, you're right to wanna make them. You know, make them,
Shervin: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Rob: So, but it is can be a tricky balance sometimes, can't it? Um, and I know,
Shervin: Yeah.
Rob: as well, if you are, if you've got things out in the open in a forum or like a Reddit or whatever, sometimes you have people on there who have quite loud voices
Shervin: Yeah, really it can be an echo chamber where if you start getting efforts, it will just keep going.
Rob: Yep.
Shervin: So if someone has an opinion and that's popular, then yeah.
Rob: Yeah, you've got a bit careful. Um, great. Okay. And one thing that you, uh, maybe we've touched on a couple of these, the, the here anyway, but one thing that you feel that you are trying to figure out at the moment?
Shervin: Yeah, it's how to scale because the app is basically useful for anyone and I just need to reach, reach them.
Rob: Yep. Absolutely. Great. Okay. Um, so let's just touch on the, future that you have in mind for the app. Obviously scaling it, that seems pretty obvious. Um, , and, if that's sort of your longer term goal, I mean, do you have a kind of a, of a scale in mind that you'd like to get to or an MRR or, or something like that, that you'd like to reach with this app that you think is. Realistic.
Shervin: It is a good question. Um, so say I have 10,000 users now, I believe it could 10x that
Rob: Hmm.
Shervin: with the right marketing, obviously with the marketing I. Some of it would be paid and then, or all of it probably. So you won't scale that linearly in terms of actually the, uh, natural revenue is it you end up with. Um, but for it to be any meaningful, like life changing quit job around.
Yeah. Uh, it would need to, yeah, it would need to 10 x basically what I are now. Yeah.
Rob: Yep. Yep. Um, so yeah, it's maybe getting, getting more, maybe not just getting more free users though. Is it, it's converting more of your free to paid, ideally getting that percentage up.
Shervin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a good point that there's some potential there.
Rob: absolutely. And. Do you, see yourself building another product? Is that where you'd like to, to go have multiple products or do you wanna just have this laser
Shervin: I.
Rob: on this product? For now,
Shervin: Uh, I would like to create more products. So actually the other week, uh, I started on one, um, which I can't share too much about yet, but at least it checks all the boxes that I talked about in the introduction. Um, also this food lookup app that I talked about earlier, I realized it's been on the play store for.
Now completely free, and it actually has around thousand users, so it makes sense to just try to monetize it and see how their response is.
Rob: Yeah, sounds good. Um, and then obviously. Bootstrapping at the moment. Do you see yourself continuing that way or do you have aspirations maybe to like go big and raise some money at some point?
Shervin: Um, to be honest, I haven't thought too much about that. Uh, I guess, uh. By myself. I just, uh, will keep things maybe naturally as they are with the, I have my day job. Um, this is something I do on the side. Um, I would say that, uh, last year, uh, a designer contacted me, uh, Ryan Tan, super talented.
Uh, I know you'll probably speak to him later,
Rob: speak to him in a few weeks actually. He's gonna come on the show.
Shervin: and he had like. Great ideas for app. He was very inspired and, uh, eventually we ended up having a very good, uh, partnership. So he redesigned the app from scratch and it looks way more polished now and also easier to use. Uh, but he also wanted like equity in the company and he had some great. Uh, I guess he was, uh, he had some pretty, pretty interesting ideas and he wanted to go all in.
I was not ready for that at that point. Also giving up equities, you know, uh, but, uh, you know, maybe in the future he, uh, either with him or with, uh, another partner.
Rob: it can be a little difficult when you're a few years in, you know, and you built this thing to kind of go, oh, I'll just give up 50%. Even though, you know, maybe the MRR isn't quite where you'd like it to be yet, but it still feels like your, your thing doesn't, your baby, I suppose.
Shervin: Yeah, it was, uh, a hard sell at that point.
Rob: Yeah.
Shervin: Today it's maybe easier because I've worked with him and I know him. He is, he's a great guy.
Rob: Yeah. And what's more important is just getting that potential out of it, isn't it really? And if you could work with someone to do that
Shervin: Yeah,
Rob: be what unlocks it
Shervin: absolutely. Yeah.
Rob: Great. And you mentioned about, um, your day job and, and going back to how it is, uh, obviously in a somewhat different space, obviously it's, it's still coding, technical stuff. Um, but if, if say, if AnyTracker got to a point where you could leave your job, would you even want to do that or would you prefer to keep it as more of a side thing?
Shervin: Uh, I've been thinking about this actually. Um, I have to say that the social aspect of the job is actually really important. So I have great, uh, coworkers. I enjoy going to work. Um, so that will probably be the biggest let down if I quit my job then. Uh, building a product by yourself is, you know, it's isolating.
And then that would not work for me unless I actually partnered up with someone else.
Rob: Yep. Makes sense. Great. Okay. let's, move towards, wrapping things up. So, um, yeah. Do you, do you have in mind a, uh, like a tip or a message for a, a would be founder, someone who's thinking of building something but not quite sure about whether they should take the leap, whether they've got what it takes.
Shervin: Yeah, I would say just jump into it. Uh, in the worst case, they'll gain some experience. Uh, one of my favorite quotes is from, uh, Nelson Mandela. I never lose. I either win or learn, and I think that's applicable here.
Rob: That's perfect. Great. Okay. Um, so in terms of, uh, finding AnyTracker, it being a, a mobile app, I guess just search for it in the app stores if you wanna have a look.
Shervin: Yeah, it should show up at the top.
Rob: Great. Um, is there a website for it?
Shervin: Yeah. anytracker.app.
Rob: Okay. I'll pop that in the, in the show notes and, um, yeah, if anyone wanted to reach out to you at any point, if they've got a question about the app or just something that you've said in the podcast, what's the best way I.
Shervin: Just connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn.
Rob: Perfect. Okay. I'll get your, uh, for that and put them into the show notes as well. And, um, yeah. Great. Alright, thanks Shervin, it's been an absolute pleasure and really interesting learning about your background and AnyTracker and, um, yeah, I think there's so much potential there and really wish you all, all the best for the future.
Shervin: Thank you so much. It's been a great chat.
Rob: Cheers. Okay, thanks Shervin. See you soon.
